I saw this and that this could start an interesting conversation. The more and more I read the bible. The more and more i believe Christ is not Michael. This guy makes such a great point in this discussion that it makes it quite hard to dispute. What is your take on the discussion. Please check out the full discussion on the link below.

-Los

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Reposted from:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080930230021AARemEf

Neither, he is an archangel as you have already stated. Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. The Bible nowhere identifies Jesus as Michael (or any other angel for that matter). Hebrews 1:5-8 draws a clear distinction between Jesus and the angels, “For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father’? Or again, ‘I will be His Father, and He will be my Son’? And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says, ‘Let all God’s angels worship Him.’ In speaking of the angels He says, ‘He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.’ But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The hierarchy of heaven beings is made clear in this passage—angels worship Jesus who, as God, is alone worthy of worship. No angel is ever worshipped in Scripture; therefore, Jesus (worthy of worship) cannot be Michael or any other angel (not worthy of worship). The angels are called sons of God (Genesis 6:2-4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7), but Jesus is THE only begotten Son of God (Hebrews 1:8; Matthew 4:3-6).

Michael the Archangel is perhaps the highest of all the angels. Michael is the only angel in the Bible who is designated “the Archangel” (Jude verse 9). Michael the Archangel, though, is only an angel. He is not God. The clear distinction in the power and authority of Michael and Jesus can be seen in comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the Archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is God incarnate (John 1:1,14). Michael the Archangel is a powerful angel, but still only an angel.

Jesus only has two natures God and Man. Before the Son was a spirit Diety who became incarnate for our behalf. He was never an angel. In fact he became lower than angels for our behalf. "For you have made him a little lower than the angels, and have crowned him with glory and honor." Psalm 8:5 this was done when Jesus the spirit Diety "Word" became flesh. For man is lower than angels. But thanks to Jesus man is now accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead. Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.” Luke 20:34-36. In this passage, Jesus clearly states that once the saints are given their resurrected bodies, they become equal to the angels. We understand from the scriptures our resurrection is a promotion from our present corrupt state. Therefore, if we get a promotion to become equal to angels, then we are at THIS time lower than (inferior to) the angels. This does not mean we aren’t God’s children but that our resurrected bodies have yet to come. In this sence we are lower than angels. "Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and ARE (present time) the children of God, BEING (present time) the children of the resurrection.” Luke 20:34-36.

* In Jude 9 Michael the archangel did not confront Satan but had Jehova (God) do it. Unlike Christ (God) who did, confront Satan! Praise be the Lamb for he is worthy of Praise!!!!!:)

Don’t be fooled! Just because someone says "bible reader, bible believer WHAT EVER" That doesn’t imply THEIR right! Remember that Satan also used Scripture but ofcourse out of context and for his own benefit. (Something to think about).

Smiling JW’s Reply on Col. 1:15

http://www.carm.org/jw/col1_15.htm

Lion Responce:

Jesus is not an archangel, the scripture you referred to does not suggest that Jesus is an archangel, it only suggest that when Jesus comes, His coming will be announced by the archangel.

“For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

Keep in mind these other verses.

“He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact imprint of God’s very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.” (Hebrews 1:3-4)

-Till He Returns

God Bless
Source(s):
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Hebrews 13:8

Thought this***

-that

OCDish? heh

I dont think its important, either way. if you believe jesus to be a powerfull spiritual being close to god that is able to reach down and help you, it really does not matter what you believe the "exact" nature of him is.

Remember in the UB it is about the "gospel of jesus" were as the bible is the "gospel about christ"... UB is concerened with the teachings of Jesus not exactly the nature of his Sovergnty...though it does note some of his nature. it leaves alot to be imagined.

So in the UB it say’s are you are saved by Following the gospel of jesus. In the bible it says "You are saved by Following the belief in jesus. there is a huge difference between the bible and the UB. Albiet the UB does say that A belief in the Sovergnty of Jesus will help you out to a large extant, perhaps even save you if need be.

warren wrote:
I dont think its important, either way. if you believe jesus to be a powerfull spiritual being close to god that is able to reach down and help you, it really does not matter what you believe the "exact" nature of him is.



Remember in the UB it is about the "gospel of jesus" were as the bible is the "gospel about christ"... UB is concerened with the teachings of Jesus not exactly the nature of his Sovergnty...though it does note some of his nature. it leaves alot to be imagined.



So in the UB it say’s are you are saved by Following the gospel of jesus. In the bible it says "You are saved by Following the belief in jesus. there is a huge difference between the bible and the UB. Albiet the UB does say that A belief in the Sovergnty of Jesus will help you out to a large extant, perhaps even save you if need be.

Thank you for your response Warren.

I do agree about the difference between the two. All except for two words. One is "in" and the other is "belief". The bible says "You are saved by following the belief of Jesus." We can chalk this one up to the loss of meaning through translation. The word that is meant to be used for belief in the bible is not the correct word. The true meaning of the word belief is faith. So it should read "You are saved by following the faith of Jesus."

Which would be a more accurate translation of the text.

And it makes so much more sense to me, correctly translated.

The thing is... I think in some cases half truth’s can be more detrimental than a straight lie. Since it requires some untangling which leads me to believe that why would anyone human or not want to make Christ equal to an angel? Well maybe it would be to make you think that Christ is Lucifer’s brother or at one time was his equal?

In any case, I have done some scrying into the issue. Every time it is the same answer and that answer is a "no" Jesus Christ is not Michael the archangel. It has been said that he was given authority over all angels and all beings both within and above the surface of the Earth.

Although being part of the triune he can transcend reality both finite and of the heavenly plane. It has also been written that our Heavenly Father has had his son with him since the creation of this world and he would be known as "The son of the Highest."

I have reasoned with myself for a long time. Saying well... "I don’t want to put limits on the limitless" Mainly because of a zeitgeist religion video i watched. But then soon after i found out that video was full of lies and had been debunked over and over again. But now i realize he is exactly what he said he was, the Son of the Highest.

I also had a wicked realization to this truth that is beyond words.

I think you may find scrying a useful tool to your advantage.

Well Urantia says that Micheal or Jesus is not an archangel or even head of archangels. Infact it say’s even lucifer recognized jesus as his creator in some aspect, or something close to that. It say’s that in the bible we concieve of Jesus as the second Person of trinity according to Paul and some apostles.

It goes on to say that it does not really matter because in Spirit Jesus is equal to God. Soooo they don’t really put him in the same position as the bible but its Noot reaaaaly that far from where they put him in regards to spiritual power. Micheal in the UB is reffered to as head of our universe.

but yea he is regarded in both the Bible and The UB as a son of the highest possible nature and divinity. That the fact he was able to even become a human is a miracle to even those on paradise.

warren wrote:
I dont think its important, either way. if you believe jesus to be a powerfull spiritual being close to god that is able to reach down and help you, it really does not matter what you believe the "exact" nature of him is.



Remember in the UB it is about the "gospel of jesus" were as the bible is the "gospel about christ"... UB is concerened with the teachings of Jesus not exactly the nature of his Sovergnty...though it does note some of his nature. it leaves alot to be imagined.



So in the UB it say’s are you are saved by Following the gospel of jesus. In the bible it says "You are saved by Following the belief in jesus. there is a huge difference between the bible and the UB. Albiet the UB does say that A belief in the Sovergnty of Jesus will help you out to a large extant, perhaps even save you if need be.

Good point. To me, the Bible is difficult to understand, and at some points difficult to comprehend and seems hypocritical. But with the UB, I have a clear understanding, without the having to go through many different variations of the book.

CHUCK wrote:

warren wrote:

I dont think its important, either way. if you believe jesus to be a powerfull spiritual being close to god that is able to reach down and help you, it really does not matter what you believe the "exact" nature of him is.





Remember in the UB it is about the "gospel of jesus" were as the bible is the "gospel about christ"... UB is concerened with the teachings of Jesus not exactly the nature of his Sovergnty...though it does note some of his nature. it leaves alot to be imagined.





So in the UB it say’s are you are saved by Following the gospel of jesus. In the bible it says "You are saved by Following the belief in jesus. there is a huge difference between the bible and the UB. Albiet the UB does say that A belief in the Sovergnty of Jesus will help you out to a large extant, perhaps even save you if need be.

Good point. To me, the Bible is difficult to understand, and at some points difficult to comprehend and seems hypocritical. But with the UB, I have a clear understanding, without the having to go through many different variations of the book.

The correct hebrew translation of the word belief is actually faith of. So the correct translation would read "You are saved by the faith of Jesus Christ." There is contradiction in both texts actually. And the UB does state that the story of Noah is a Myth which would be in straight contradiction with the bible. But with that being said there are a few things about the History of Urantia section which do not resonate with me at all. And then there are things that totally resonate with me.

Thank god we have the spirit of Truth.

well it does say noah was a real person, and that he built a boat house, in case of a flood. and one interesting side note is that urantia does talk about Great floods happening especially the edenic flood. also there is a interesting correlation between Barabus’ a greek scholar who had a copy of the sumerian kings’ list and adam and eve. This kigns list when added up by barabas was about 400, 000 and some years. keeping in mind that 28 day’s was considered a year. the exact time from when barabas began the kings list and said that it had ended adds up to the exact time that urantia states that adam and eve arrived on urantia.

So basically if you add up the sumerian kings list "that barabas wrote down thousands of years ago". you get roughly the same yearthat adam and eve came onto urantia according to the blue book. ...not to mention the many myth’s in the area of adam and eve that are escribed to them. and the Princes staff there is soooo much evidence coming out some not proveable yet..but some of it strikes a chord and its becoming more and more clear that something big happened.

I forget the exact spelling of barabas though and the exact dates....so if anyone wants more information on the exact dates im gona have to go back and find the exact speling and precise dates haha. the spelling was in one of Chris halvorson’s video’s hahahahah.

but its a really cool correlation, that hte sumerian kings list begins in rougly the exact year that adam and eve arrive on the planet, and in which these kings are said to have came as giants among men.

Urantia book’s history seems sketchy at first I mean fuck i received the name urantia in a dream 7 years ago and i looked it up ont he internet at 1 in the morning and i was like THIS is fucking stupid Why do i give a shit about made up alien story’s?...lol., but if you open up to the possibility it could be real and listen to some of chris halvorson’s video’s because he explains the texts so well maybe you will get a feel for it. buut its not for everyone.

the funny thing about urantia though, is that you can’t really get the book unless you open up to it....its like a women hahahah

It’s all about resonance to me.

Being open is always needed in growth.

But discernment is needed in all directions.

The thing about it is... I have been told by my Guardians and my Higherself.

That Christ and Michael are not the same person and never will be.

Trust me I was at first completely open to it and did not want to put limits on the limitless. I indeed in fact believed that Christ was Michael at the first.

It was not until later that God brought it to my attention that It is not true.

It was kind of a painful awakening to the Truth... I must admit because of my stubbornness the lesson actually took a month or so to fully sink in.

In the end what ever you deem true is what ever you deem true.

But i suggest doing some real soul searching and Prayer/meditation on the subject...

Maybe even some crystal scrying....

I mean whatever works to help you make that decision.

Something i really enjoyed about the Vedas is how once you gained the knowledge from them you were to transcend the actual text because after all it is only a book and is still limiting in ways. As are all spiritual/religious text once the knowledge is obtained.

It’s important to transcend the book in order to not be limited by false doctrine/ or false belief structures. Any how that’s just my thoughts on the subject.

We may all come to different conclusions but in the end all will be revealed.

Or should i say beginning since we have yet to become...?

the urantia book agree’s that micheal and christ are not the same person complety as well.

warren wrote:
the urantia book agree’s that micheal and christ are not the same person complety as well.

Really... Can you tell me where to find it, please?

well i guess they are the same person, but it does hint somehwere in the book that jesus may possess his own soul, so this soul is the human identity of jesus of narazeth not micheal...soo there is some speculation there... but i guess yea the rest of the book does say that micheal is jesus sooo i guess there isnt much in the book that talks about jesus and micheal as 2 seperate beings but some of it does mention how people should pay attention to the human side of jesus and how he was a real mortal of the realms, and that he was the son of Man as well..

Its all that personality stuff that confuses me. The Messengers were right to say that some things are really out of mortal-time understanding.

yes there are many parts that are confusing. But when we can just give the basic concepts a chance in our lives we find that the concepts of the urantia book are pretty good advice. hehe