Though a bit off of the topic of the actual Creationist-Atheist debate, this theme seems related enough to be worthy of discussion. A great many Creationists have asserted that the USA was founded by Christian men upon Christian ideals. I think that such assertions represent, at the very least, an oversimplification of the issue. There were, no doubt, devoted Christian Monotheists involved in the founding of the US, but, as we shall see, there were important Founding Fathers who were Deists, Doubters, and atheists as well. Lets explore.

It cannot be said, based on some of the available Founding Fathers quotes, that every one of them were Theists. In fact, many very important revolutionary and Constitution-contributing statesmen had some very harsh criticisms of Christianity and Theism in their public and private correspondences. Let’s have a look at some of these:

The First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

Also From Paine’s The Age of Reason:
"What is it the Bible teaches us? -- rapine, cruelty, and murder."

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)

John Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)

From Thomas Jefferson’s Bible:
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

Also from Jefferson:
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

"In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear....Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it end in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue on the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others which it will procure for you."

"Christianity...[has become] the most perverted system that ever shone on man....Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

From Franklin’s autobiography, p. 66:
"My parents had given me betimes religious impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself."


Ok, so all of the the US Founding Fathers were not exactly Christian. Indeed, some were vehemently anti-Christian. Was the US founded on Christian principles? Well, Christianity, Greek philosophy and many other ideas contributed to the world-view of those who framed the US Constitution. The US governmental system was in some ways a radical divergence from and criticism of the kinds of government Christendom had created in the past.

European Governments were typically Kingdoms, with monarchical rulers mimicking the biblical kings like Solomon and David, and wholly in agreement with the words of Jesus that we ought to render unto Caesar (a totalitarian despot) that which is Caesars. The US constitution represents a rejection of kings and despots, a markedly non-bible, non-Christian stance. It is easy to see that the USA was not in any way founded on principles found in the bible or Christianity, but a rejection of those principles.

US law chose not to inculcate biblical laws like; stoning rebellious children to death, how to sell slaves properly, and observing the Sabbath, etc. while some of the plain common sense ideas, which the bible makes use of, were retained (ie. we don’t like murder, theft and perjury) much of its bronze aged ideology was completely ignored.

What do you think? Is it accurate to say that the US is a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles? Or was it a nation, founded by statesmen of many different beliefs, based on the entire set of sources of western civilization, to include lessons learned from previous (Christian) governmental systems, Enlightenment Reasoning, and the works of philosophers like De Sade, Voltaire, Hume, Kant, etc.?

In God we Trust - its written on every dollar your spend

I don’t have the time now - but I sure will get into this one.

Rick wrote:
In God we Trust - its written on every dollar your spend



I don’t have the time now - but I sure will get into this one.

Only since the 1950’s. This nation was not built on Christian values. Quite the opposite.

Rick wrote:
In God we Trust - its written on every dollar your spend



I don’t have the time now - but I sure will get into this one.

Putting "In God We Trust" on every dollar bill certainly is a genius way of getting people to believe in the value of a buck, ain’t it. I bet you think that phrase was added to currency because our government actually believes it... silly man.

If anything our country was founded on the philosophy that it’s citizens have freedom OF religion as well as freedom FROM religion. Saying that the underlying nature of the U.S. is wrapped up with any one religion stands in direct opposition to that philosophy.

Rick wrote:
In God we Trust - its written on every dollar your spend



I don’t have the time now - but I sure will get into this one.

"The motto “In God we trust” was added to the dollar bill in 1957. Since then its purchasing power, relative to the consumer price index, has declined by a staggering 87 percent."

to say that america was founded on one OR the other is an oversimplification in and of it’s self. religion has done much to shape our country for better and worse... but to say that it alone has shaped our country is frankly quite stupid. but at the sametime, to say that we are founded on just theist or atheist beliefs is also rather dumb

Jordan wrote:
to say that america was founded on one OR the other is an oversimplification in and of it’s self. religion has done much to shape our country for better and worse... but to say that it alone has shaped our country is frankly quite stupid. but at the sametime, to say that we are founded on just theist or atheist beliefs is also rather dumb

I agree.

We were founded on the belief that you can believe whatever you want and the government wouldn’t interfere.

Chase wrote:

Rick wrote:

In God we Trust - its written on every dollar your spend





I don’t have the time now - but I sure will get into this one.

Putting "In God We Trust" on every dollar bill certainly is a genius way of getting people to believe in the value of a buck, ain’t it. I bet you think that phrase was added to currency because our government actually believes it... silly man.

Man of wonders when was the last time you were in DC?

Have you read whats on our monuments? And the walls of Congress?

Chase do you really think I haven’t done my homework. Why would you all want to think this nation was formed on secular ideas - is it because you love your evil deeds? Is it because you want to reject a God who will hold you accountable.

The good news is He is ready and willing to forgive you if you are willing to turn from your ways. I did.

Rick wrote:

Chase wrote:

Rick wrote:


In God we Trust - its written on every dollar your spend







I don’t have the time now - but I sure will get into this one.

Putting "In God We Trust" on every dollar bill certainly is a genius way of getting people to believe in the value of a buck, ain’t it. I bet you think that phrase was added to currency because our government actually believes it... silly man.

Man of wonders when was the last time you were in DC?



Have you read whats on our monuments? And the walls of Congress?



Chase do you really think I haven’t done my homework. Why would you all want to think this nation was formed on secular ideas - is it because you love your evil deeds? Is it because you want to reject a God who will hold you accountable.



The good news is He is ready and willing to forgive you if you are willing to turn from your ways. I did.

Find one reference to the god in a founding document·

Rick wrote:

Chase wrote:

Rick wrote:


In God we Trust - its written on every dollar your spend







I don’t have the time now - but I sure will get into this one.

Putting "In God We Trust" on every dollar bill certainly is a genius way of getting people to believe in the value of a buck, ain’t it. I bet you think that phrase was added to currency because our government actually believes it... silly man.

Man of wonders when was the last time you were in DC?



Have you read whats on our monuments? And the walls of Congress?



Chase do you really think I haven’t done my homework. Why would you all want to think this nation was formed on secular ideas - is it because you love your evil deeds? Is it because you want to reject a God who will hold you accountable.



The good news is He is ready and willing to forgive you if you are willing to turn from your ways. I did.

Find one reference OF god in a founding document·

fixed.

Declaration of Independence is NOT a founding document·

Jordan wrote:
to say that america was founded on one OR the other is an oversimplification in and of it’s self. religion has done much to shape our country for better and worse... but to say that it alone has shaped our country is frankly quite stupid. but at the sametime, to say that we are founded on just theist or atheist beliefs is also rather dumb

Jordon Ashcroft!? It’s been a long time. I also agree that one can’t make a general statement about the founding fathers’ theologies. However; with enough research one can at least make a pretty solid hypothesis that the vast majority of our founding presidents and the fathers of the constitution were at most deists. Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, Washington, even Lincoln. It’s not only in their own personal writings, but in the writings of those that knew them personally.

Rick wrote:

Chase wrote:

Rick wrote:


In God we Trust - its written on every dollar your spend







I don’t have the time now - but I sure will get into this one.

Putting "In God We Trust" on every dollar bill certainly is a genius way of getting people to believe in the value of a buck, ain’t it. I bet you think that phrase was added to currency because our government actually believes it... silly man.

Man of wonders when was the last time you were in DC?



Have you read whats on our monuments? And the walls of Congress?



Chase do you really think I haven’t done my homework. Why would you all want to think this nation was formed on secular ideas - is it because you love your evil deeds? Is it because you want to reject a God who will hold you accountable.



The good news is He is ready and willing to forgive you if you are willing to turn from your ways. I did.

Lived in DC for four years. The vast majority of our country’s Christian documents, including the phrase "In God We Trust" on the dollar and "Under God" in the pledge, not to mention all of those monuments and the walls of Congress, didn’t exist until the 20th century.

Do I think you’ve done you’re homework? No.

Many of our early documents were edited by Congress to have more Christian undertones. That said, when the forefathers mentioned the God of Nature, they were not referring to the Christian God. There have been thousands upon thousands of research papers done on the subject and the results are pretty conclusive. Franklin called himself a deist. Washington didn’t partake in communion and wouldn’t speak of his theological beliefs publicly. Payne mocked Christianity. Adams. Jefferson. They’ve all been quoted. Their friends have been quoted. Coworkers. Priests. Conclusively. Am I to believe them or you?

I would think that the founding fathers are better sources on the subject than someone that insults me without cause, judges me without reason, and loathes my disbelief without question.

What I find indescribably hilarious is that you are probably a very rational person in almost all other areas of your life. If someone said, "Do you believe in Santa Clause?" you would think it preposterous... a man going to all human households in a single night to drop presents down a chimney... impossible. He’d only have .005 seconds per house to do it... but hearing everyone on earth murmur all at once... that makes perfect sense. Walking on water. Surviving three days inside a fish. Resurrecting the dead. Saving humanity for something they have yet to do. All perfectly rational concepts for you.

Did you know that after Julius Caesar died there reports of his returning from the dead? Not to mention Elvis. Tupac. Heck my friends parents and my ex-girlfriend both saw a friend of mine who had been dead for more than a year. Of course, you probably find that all irrational. The thought of an apparition... that’s just silly.

Rick wrote:

Chase wrote:

Rick wrote:


In God we Trust - its written on every dollar your spend







I don’t have the time now - but I sure will get into this one.

Putting "In God We Trust" on every dollar bill certainly is a genius way of getting people to believe in the value of a buck, ain’t it. I bet you think that phrase was added to currency because our government actually believes it... silly man.

Man of wonders when was the last time you were in DC?



Have you read whats on our monuments? And the walls of Congress?



Chase do you really think I haven’t done my homework. Why would you all want to think this nation was formed on secular ideas - is it because you love your evil deeds? Is it because you want to reject a God who will hold you accountable.



The good news is He is ready and willing to forgive you if you are willing to turn from your ways. I did.

there’s stuff written on the walls of congress? like, tags and whatnot?

it wil be severely confusing forever that ghosts and apparitions ARE real, but not religion. so one famous guy comes back after death, and everyones like GOD! and jesus or elvis are all like "i have no fucking clue whats going on right now! someone help me, call an exorcist or something!"