An excerpt from :

Observing Without the "Me"

Full Talk

'We are made up of many fragments, each contradicting the other. Both linguistically, factually and theoretically. Contradictory desires, contradictory pursuits, ambitions that deny affection, love and so on--one is aware of these fragments. And who is the observer who decides what he should do, what he should think, what he should become? Surely one of the fragments. He becomes the analyzer, he assumes the authority.

One fragment, among the many other fragments, assumes the censorship, and he becomes the actor, the doer, compelling other fragments to conform and therefore brings about contradiction. I don't know if we see this very clearly?

Then what is one to do, knowing most of us are made up of these many fragments, which fragment is to act? Or are all the fragments to act? You are following? Or action by any one of the fragments brings about contradiction, conflict and therefore confusion. Right? Are we communicating with each other?

Comunication being thinking together. Not only verbally, but understanding together, going together, creating together. One fragment believes in god, or doesn't believe in god, and another fragment wants a security, not only physical but psychological security. One fragment is afraid, another fragment tries to dominate that fear. Seeing this extraordinary contradiction in ourselves, what is one to do? The fragments cannot be integrated, which implies there is an integrator. Right?

That is, the integrator becomes another fragment. So it is not integration, it is not one fragment which assumes a superior position as the higher self, or the most intellectual thing and dominates the rest. Or one fragment which feels greatly emotional and tries to function along emotional lines.

So seeing this very clearly, what is the action that will be total, that will not be contradictory? And who is it that is seeing the whole fragments? Is it another fragment that says, `I observe all the many other fragments'? Are we moving together? Or there is only observation without the observer. Can we go along? You understand my question? '

a quote :

The primary cause of disorder in ourselves is the seeking of reality promised by another . . . It is a most extraordinary thing that although most of us are opposed to political tyranny and dictatorship, we inwardly accept the authority, the tyranny, of another to twist our minds and our way of life.

-- J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, p. 10

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I am thankful to have had a humanities professor who assigned Krishnamurti's
'Think on these things' in an American History class - he always said there is no point in learning history if we can not first learn how to think for ourselves and learn why we think the way we do.

wow! going back and reading it again , I really hope some people will take the time to read the essay above : 'Observing Without the "Me"' it covers so many areas that we talk about here.

It basically dives deep into the question .... If you want to re-make yourself , who is doing the re-making. Who are the different voices that speak within you, and who is in control at any given time.

I love Krishnamurti. I met a guy once who had gotten to see him live before he passed away. Apparently Krishnamurti's chi was very strong in his later days, and he ran up a series of steps to the podium as if he were a teenager.

One of my favorite moments in this life came when I was reading one of his books (I can't remember which one) and he described that feeling when you look up at the sky and suddenly realize that you and it are one and the same and everything seems to stop. There is no you, there is only oneness with the sky.

A few days after reading this, I clocked out from work and stepped out into the parking lot. As I did, I glanced up at the clouds -- and everything seemed to just stop. I had no sense of self whatsoever; I felt as if I'd completely become the sky, expansive and complete. There was no sense of time, or ego, or worry. There was only sky.

I don't know how long I was standing there, but it felt like a blissful eternity. And then suddenly it was gone and I came back to "reality." I can only hope that everyone can experience this feeling at least once.

http://www.wie.org/j11/peat.asp

Here is an interview of David Peat, who was a friend and the biographer of David Bohm, the late great physicist. Bohm had an long lasting relationship with Krishnamurti, a fascinating one at that. This interview talks about that alot, you should check it out. Perfect for this group. I'm reading Freedom From the Known right now. Krishnamurti makes you realize how so many spiritual teachings don't really get at the grit of the situation of life. He was an amazing individual.

very interesting interview .... here is a q/a that got my attention :

WIE: When Krishnamurti said, "Begin with the unknown, " you must have a sense of what he meant by that.

DP: I think Krishnamurti felt that proceeding from the known to the unknown is not the way to work. You must begin with the unknown, with the question, and in the unknown one finds this enormous energy, whereas when you are constantly working from the known, there isn't that energy to penetrate things. David himself told someone else one time, "Between where you are now and where you'd like to be there's a sort of barrier, or a chasm, and sometimes it's a good idea to imagine that you're already at the other side of that chasm, so that you can start on the unknown side."

Bohm & Krishnamurti had some really engaging conversations. I remember seeing a video of the two of them in dialogue, and just being blown away. Here are a couple of links to part of a conversation between them, from Brockwood Park, England, 1983, and published in The Future of Humanity.:

Video
Audio

These are from the J. Krishnamurti Teachings International website

made a page in Honor of J. Krishnamurti here :

Krishnamurti on Second Attention

Abraxus wrote:
wow! going back and reading it again , I really hope some people will take the time to read the essay above : 'Observing Without the "Me"' it covers so many areas that we talk about here.

It basically dives deep into the question .... If you want to re-make yourself , who is doing the re-making. Who are the different voices that speak within you, and who is in control at any given time.

I think we must accept who is control at any given time, instead of denying those we disagree or disidentify with in time. Truth but hard to swallow.