Joel Challenger here. Okay . . . time for my two cents. I have never spoken on this issue publicly before, but I feel that I need to say something about this, since I feel a lot of your views are misguided by hear say, and third party opinions. Now, I know that I will step on hundreds of toes. But hear me out. I am just presenting the facts as they are. I am presenting them not from hearsay, but from my own personal experience. And since I havent seen any first hand personal experience listed on this site. Here is my contribution.

I must agree with the statement and couldn't be better put: "I'm just pointing out, that it is sad that a university that claims to be founded on the unchanging Word of God and claims to be a beacon of light and a center for truth, even had to deal with this crap in the first place. Who cares if the no interracial dating rule was put in effect when it was culturally acceptable It's still unbiblical. It was a wrong rule to have. Any segregation in this country was wrong. The Bible didn't change that "rule." The Bible stands clear on how we should treat others, and it always has." --Annie

More than often, you will find me defending the institution and its policies, because I believe that once a person agrees to attend BJU, and you sign the contract at the beginning of the year, you are bound to its policies and it rules. And it is your duty to uphold them while you are a student, because that is your agreement. You gave your word by your signature. Well, that is, as long as it doesn't go against what the Bible teaches. From the first day its door opened that is where BJU has been wrong on several issues. On many issues they integrated personal opinion into the fundamental doctrines and that is very dangerous. Many people say But Abe Lincoln and George Washington did such and such, and said XYZ. . . . . But honestly, does that make it right?? What should we use as a blue print for our lives, the personal preferences and opinions of the founding fathers?

For many of students who were faced with this issue while on the compass, they couldnt speak out since they were silenced through intimidation. (I will explain what I mean further on) Then after graduating they then realized it is not really that important or really doesnt even matter to say anything about it.

Many people have asked my brothers and I "what race are you? What race are your parents? (There were seven of us Challengers who attended BJU) etc. Being from the Caribbean, the place of vacationers, I wasn't aware of, or confronted with any racial bigotry until I entered the south, sadly but more specifically BJU. Surprised??

To help you understand where I am coming from I must give a little family history. The ever perplexing question: What race am I? lol My fathers grandfather was white from England. His mothers line Latin/ Hispanic from Portugal. Maiden name Fernandez. Her mother from the French isle of Martinique. Her father from the islands. / Now on my mothers side: My mom is a Carib Indian. Yes, I grew up on an Indian Reservation on Dominica here in the Caribbean. Now the Carib Indians are the last remaining for whom the Caribbean was named. From history you would probably know they migrated through the Bering Strait, through North America (Canada US) down through Central and South America and up through the Caribbean. A true Carib looks like a native Cherokee Indian and a lot of the customs and practices are the same. (understandable if you follow the migration process) So, what race am I? hmm. I never really thought about it before BJU.

From this part of the world, the only options for a University degree involve studying internationally. And I was quite excited to attend BJU. As a foreign student after graduating from high school I wanted to attend BJ since I had heard a lot of positives about it as a fundamental college and its liberal arts education.

To say that BJU as a whole is racist is both untrue and unfair and to say that it doesnt exist on the campus is also untrue and inaccurate. The argument that the same level of racism may be seen at another colleges and Universities still doesnt make it right. Or to argue that other colleges have been in the past faced with it, is not a valid one since our pattern for being Christ-like is not the secular world, but the Bible. And to use the Bible to push any superiority by any race: be it red, green, white, black, or any other. This cannot be Christ-like or Biblical since the Bible doesnt contradict itself. And shouldnt Christians set the pattern?

Sadly, but racism does exist at BJU. But it exist in selective students and faculty members. As a new student I didnt fully understand the no interracial dating rule. Not only it didnt make any sense but I figured that it didnt apply to me since I couldnt tell you that I belonged to any particular race. But does it really matter in the larger scope of thing? So, my siblings and I declared our selves as Hispanic. Since it was either white/ black /Hispanic or Asian.
I didnt go to BJU to get a wife, but to get an education. But, I have always had a lot of friends. Sadly, I asked out a girl out to lunch that some other dude had a crush on. So, he turned me into the administration for interracial dating/ I got called into to talk to the Dorm Supervisor. / asked me if I was dating this Suzzie Q Well, I answered honestly no. Got drilled for a long time about it and about every girl that I had ever ate with on campus. Guess I was being watched The dorm sup told me well, to be careful and XYZ. Well, I clean forgot about our meeting and went on doing stuff with friends.
My brothers and I look a like so, two weeks later my brother gets a call slip for a meeting with the Dean of men. (Mr. Miller) who accuses him of interracially dating this one girl my friend My poor brother gets drilled for a long time about this and get accused of this when hardly even knew the girl as an acquaintance. Finally my brother told him that he hardly knew the girl and she was a friend of mine. Week later I get called in to see Mr. Miller I got drilled for a long time about interracially dating this girl. We were great friends but not dating. A couple of weeks later my one of my brother and I who went with some friends of the family to Artist Series got called in together to see Mr. Miller. He told me that a lot of complaints have been coming in about us seen (not even dating) with girls not of our race and that can not be tolerated. (I did find out later who the guy was who kept turning me and my brothers in, as he was over heard talking about it to a friend of his about it).

The statement that made me lose respect for Mr. Miller and realized that he a very racist individual was when he pulled his chair from behind his desk and site uncomfortably close to me, and said that I was never to be seen anywhere on campus again with a white girl. And I was to find someone of my own race. I was not only shocked by this statement because he doesnt know my family line but also he cant tell me who to hang out with. If I want to date or hang out with a black, white or oriental person, thats my decision. I then preceded to ask him what I should do for class assignments etc. he said I must find a faculty person or another guy to be with me any time I was to do anything on campus like in the snack shop or student center for example with a white girl. I told him that there wasnt anyone of my race enrolled at the school, he then said that I should be able to find a black girl. Then he said by the way when it comes to Artist Series activities I cant go with a member white girl since people looking, and visitors wouldnt be able to tell if I am dating or not. He said that the only way that I could go with a white girl to Artist Series is if I go in a group of 4 or 5 and guys sit between me and any white girl in the group. How gay is that?? You tell me. How racist is that? During my time at BJU I met with the administration on several occasions concerning the issue of interracial dating, and on all accounts it was about good friends, since I had many friends and didnt date anyone on campus. On one occasion I met with Mr. Miller, Mr. Daulton and Dorm Sup. So, I know what is to get drilled for hours to try to get you to confess something you are clueless about.

On one occasion I told Mr. Miller that the girl was Hispanic too, as stated in my records. He said well, in this case it doesnt count, since your skin is darker than hers and people wont know. So, you cant be seen with her at all anywhere on campus.

This is what I meant when I spoke about the process of intimidation used. As a foreign student, Mr. Miller knew that it is difficult to get a visa to study in the USA and we wont jeopardize our education by exposing the racism seen. All I had to do at the time was go to the news with our story and it would get published, but that wasn't the reason I attended BJU. However, I would have had to leave the school. And start the visa process over again . . . And to transfer to another university financially I wont have been able to manage.

As far as racism in the student body it isnt something that displayed on a whole. However, it can be found in certain individuals. And anyone who says that the issue of race ore interracial dating wasnt at all an issue is ill informed or choose to be blind. Yes, the media did blow it up a bit but from my opinion they werent too far from the facts, the hidden facts that is.

So, do I say BJU is a racist school? No! However, we cant overlook the fact that it exists among certain people. And it is covered up through intimidation or other means. And this is a sad thing from one of the top Fundamental Christian Institutions in the World.

correction: on the application said caucasian not white.

It is horrible that you had to suffer like that in a school that claims to be Christian.
In my opinion, if Mr. Miller, and Miss Barker, and Miss.Baker are still working there as authoritys, BJU is a racist school. If they still have people like that running things, then the school is just as racist as when I was there. The people in power there judge you when you don't fit inside their nice little Baptist white, tidy, tie wearing, outwardly good, BOX.

Joel, I'm very sorry you were put through that humiliation! My best friend was roommates with one of your brothers...good guy. No one deserves to be treated differently because of their skin color!!!!!

My Two Cents..

1) I guess when you have a rule against inter-racial dating, it's hard to enforce the rule without being perceived as being racist. I suspect that the Dean of Men/Women would be just as annal if there was a rule against dating between heights or intellects. I'd probably be called into their office for being seen with short dumb girls :-) There is a difference between being anally focused on the rules and being racist, especially when "discrimination" is in the rule book.

2) I have a problem with the presupposition on this forum that a "Christian School" is made up of sinless people. The gospel isn't that perfect people can qualify as "christian", it is that Jesus suffered an awful lot for the punishment for what we do and that we out of gratitude obey him.

it's not the fact that the rule was being enforced, you'd expect that; but how you enforce it can say a lot about you as a person. there's the compassionate, caring, and explaining way or the if you don't do what you're told you're gone attitude. pretty sure as a chritian institution, even being imperfect humans, they would choose to be the former.

Wow...as if my respect level for old Uncle Tony couldn't go down any lower...during my time at BJU (97-02) there was just a...I don't know...aura that the guy emanated from him. I am glad that I never had to meet with him for any reason...

It's not that places can be sinless, but that rule was one of the most discriminating anti-biblical rules they had. They WOULD use some vague interpretation of scripture to back it up, but in essence it goes against everything Christ stood for. So, no, the university is not "sinless" but that was one area that I really don't feel they have an excuse with.

When I started attending in '97, I had been seeing a guy who was hispanic for 3 years. His grandmother was whiter than snow, and his father, who was light skinned (Puerto Rican), passed away when his son was only 2 years old. His mother was a indigenous puerto rican so she was incredibly dark skinned. She re-married a wonderful black man. The problem was, because my boyfriend had his mothers skin tone and because his step father was in deed black, everyone assumed he was black. When we attended BJU, he was made to choose a race. He had a HUGE meeting with the Miller, Baker, and Berg to determine what "race" he was. When he gave his background, and with some convincing, they allowed him to claim he was white. He hated that b/c he didn't want to associate with any one race. But because he knew he couldn't date me if he went by their standards, he went ahead and chose to be "white". They told him that once he chose a race, he could not date anyone other than that race.
Anyway, the problem started when people found out he was a "white" guy and was dating a white girl. I can't tell you how many times guys I didn't even know made crass comments to me about dating a "black" guy. And my boyfriend repeatedly got harrassed and threatening phone calls (not life threatening..but "i'll turn you in" phone calls) from people he didn't know. This went on for months. It got so bad that we couldn't spend any time together alone....well as alone as you can be at BJ. We always had to be with a group.
It got to the point where we just decided we couldn't deal with it and we ended up breaking up. Now, yes, it worked out for the best in our lives...at least in mine, but the point is, NO ONE deserves to be treated like that. In this situation it wasn't even the faculty, it WAS the students. And yes, it was a handful, but the fact was that this behavior wasn't looked down upon. I whole heartedly believe that if we were actually "turned" in for dating legally, we would have had a similar situation as Joel. And i'm convinced that it's because they'd take the "offense" (word totally mis-used) of a white student over the respect and love of a person of darker skin.

SamuelWrote:

My Two Cents..





1) I guess when you have a rule against inter-racial dating, it's hard to enforce the rule without being perceived as being racist. I suspect that the Dean of Men/Women would be just as annal if there was a rule against dating between heights or intellects. I'd probably be called into their office for being seen with short dumb girls :-) There is a difference between being anally focused on the rules and being racist, especially when "discrimination" is in the rule book.

2) I have a problem with the presupposition on this forum that a "Christian School" is made up of sinless people. The gospel isn't that perfect people can qualify as "christian", it is that Jesus suffered an awful lot for the punishment for what we do and that we out of gratitude obey him.

Correction: I am sorry that you misunderstood the presupposition to be that a "Christian School" is made up of sinless people. There isn't a sinless church or sinless school; we all know that. The presupposition is that there should not be a hint of racial discrimination from a Christian University, since this doesn't accurately represent Christ. Do you think it does??

However, as you state it so well, The gospel is "that Jesus suffered an awful lot for the punishment for what we do [did], and that we out of gratitude obey him." Therefore in support to my arguement, it is not our duty, neither is it right to judge our fellow man based on our personal preferences and standards. We have a higher standard. Therefore I can not say that I am better than you because I tan better in the sun. Can I? Neither can I use the Bible to support it, since it is and would be wrong, and it would be my opinion.



I said earlier that I do not believe that BJU is a racist school over all. I had many wonderful teachers and I made lots of good friends at BJ from all over the world. In fact, quite ironically, I am usually defending BJU here in the Caribbean. And honestly, I could send my kids to BJU. because I didn't allow it to bother me as a student, because I realized they were wrong and had to answer to God for it. However, we can not close our eyes to the facts that it does exist among the administration and students, as much as it hurts to admit it. I had one friend that got kicked out for interacial dating. The first time he got called in was for hanging out and doing devotions in the FMA with a white girl. Someone turned him in. And then he was asked not to come back at the end of the semester, when he was turned in a second time for being alone with a "white" girl in the Student Center.

One popular "friend of the institution" told my brother that he couldn't hang out with "his" daughter, because he wasn't a member of the "pure race". If that isn't discrimination and racism what is it?? or What is? Is it a preception?

I honestly believe that BJU owes a lot of people appologies. Sometimes they seem to usurp the authority of the Holy Spirit. How can 3 members of the administration meet with a student, look him over, and then determine what race he is? Do they "check him out"? Can you even do a DNA test to determine that? Please people where is the logic here? That is not preception. That my friend is discrimination.

joel, i think was at school the same time you were.
i wish i'd known what you were going through. i'd have gone on a "date" (like anthing at the school is really a date) with you just so my dad could call miller and chew him out for not letting his daughter date another fellow hispanic.
i'm half puerto rican, half white, but they never asked me to choose.
my dad asked dr. bob about it before i ever went and he said hispanics were caucasian.
i never realized the rule was even that much enforced because i had friends who did date interracially (like, the white/black or white/asian kind). i guess no one wanted to turn them in for it.
ever wonder what school would have been like if everyone had minded their own business?

Uptown GirlWrote:
joel, i think was at school the same time you were.

i wish i'd known what you were going through. i'd have gone on a "date" (like anthing at the school is really a date) with you just so my dad could call miller and chew him out for not letting his daughter date another fellow hispanic.

i'm half puerto rican, half white, but they never asked me to choose.

my dad asked dr. bob about it before i ever went and he said hispanics were caucasian.

i never realized the rule was even that much enforced because i had friends who did date interracially (like, the white/black or white/asian kind). i guess no one wanted to turn them in for it.

ever wonder what school would have been like if everyone had minded their own business?

Uptown Girl:
I had a friend that actually happened too, where Mr. Miller got chewed out. The Guy was called in and told he and his girlfriend had to break up or they would be shipped. Mr. Miller told him he was black/ (a dark filopino) and could not date her. What he didn't know was the girl's pastor was on the board. The father /pastor called Mr. Miller and chewed him out.

So, my friend and his girlfriend knew about Mr. Miller's conversation, where He promised to call the guy and "change the race" So, he called the guy back and said he was thinking about it and wanted to get a better look at the dude. So he studied this dude carefully for a long time then looked at him and said well, on second thought we decided you are hispanic. So, we decided to let you date. Both Mr. miler and Dr. Berg was present/

If this is Biblical, how can you change something like that? God's word is unchanging!

ShellyWrote:
I'm sorry, Joel. I had no idea you were going through that & it's sad. I guess I lived under the assumption that it wasn't an issue & didn't bother anyone.

Did it get any better after the "ban" was lifted? What exactly did they change?

Shelly, I still had lot of friends and did stuff with different girls, so I didn't let it get to me.

After the ban was lifted, do you remember the chapel time that Dr. Bob said that although the ban was lifted students would still be required to get both set of parents send a letter to the administration authorizing you to date someone out of your race. Made headlinse the next day. dr. Bob had to return to Chapel an drop the clause in the rule/ Needless to say he was furious.